Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Tech Questions and Answers
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Walck's vs KW Radiator: Same?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Walck's vs KW Radiator: Same?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Dahdo View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Mar. 2018
Location: Oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dahdo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Walck's vs KW Radiator: Same?
    Posted: 25 July 2022 at 7:23pm
Took my original radiator to the shop today and they said i needed a re-core, price: $1,000. This is a legit old time shop in Vancouver and guess it just is what it is. So now I'm shopping reproductions and I am wondering if the "Best quality" 4-core copper/steel at Walcks (PN 640146) for $575 (out of stock) is the same radiator as Kaiser-Willys PN 640146 for $599 that is in stock. Anyone know? They look the same in photos. 

Back to Top
dasvis View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Sep. 2019
Location: Salem, Oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 1518
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2022 at 7:25pm
I would guess so. I am pretty sure Walcks fuel tanks are Omix. 
They can only source from so many vendors. 
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
Back to Top
Downs View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 Sep. 2021
Location: Hunt County Tex
Status: Offline
Points: 179
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Downs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2022 at 10:14pm
Good god, 1000 dollars for a re-core.  Insane. 
Back to Top
Ron D View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 27 Oct. 2019
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 1403
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2022 at 10:40pm
To me, crazy stupid money quotes like $1000 for a radiator re-core is the same as if they'd said "we don't really want the job, but if you're crazy stupid enough we'll do it".
Naturally, they won't say that to your face.
And any questioning about the "take it or leave it" deal will usually get a "hit the road" response.

I've been running into more and more of this lately. Not just jeep stuff, lots of things.
Can't help but think a lot of these folks will be out of business before long.
But I might be surprised.

I'd flush and store the old radiator for a while.
Sanity might come back in style some day.


Edited by Ron D - 25 July 2022 at 11:02pm
1951 M38
1951 M100
Back to Top
Oldpappy View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr. 2018
Location: Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 4815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 12:10am
I had a Jeep radiator re-cored last Fall and it was $350. I agree a quote for $1,000 is just them telling you to buzz off. 

I would not assume the radiator KW sells is the same as what Walcks sells. I could call Walcks and ask about the one they sell, you will get an honest answer.
If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
Back to Top
Dahdo View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Mar. 2018
Location: Oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dahdo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 11:35am
That price does sound like a "buzz off, we've got all the business we need", but it didn't feel that way. It's a small mom and pop shop, been there forever, very well reviewed, and the old fella who I assume was the owner came out, looked it over after the leak test and gave the estimate. Then we went back in the office, and he spent 20 minutes searching for a new replacement that he could get me. We finally concluded that he couldn't save me anything over a replacement from Walcks or KW. 

I found this thread over at HAMB from ten years ago, makes me think prices have been high, at least in some areas, for a long time


Back to Top
SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 3

Joined: 22 Jan. 2016
Location: S.E. Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 3183
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 11:51am
Not very many radiator repair shops exist anymore as most are small shops with owners that are probably approaching retirement age. Radiator repair is probably close to becoming a lost art; similar to re-babbitting old rods. The exception might be industrial engine radiator repair for large equipment and oil field applications.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.)
U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it.



Back to Top
CJ2A60 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 11 July 2022
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 81
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJ2A60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 12:08pm
reThey're probably the same, from the same supplier.

When Walcks has them in stock again, their prices will be probably be higher also. For those of you that missed the late '70s/early '80s, this is a common occurrence during times of inflation; it's out of stock while the retailer desperately tries and fails to find supplies at old price points, then when it is in stock again, it is more expensive.

The phrase "a thousand dollars" still has a certain psychological shock value to it, but it really isn't nearly as much money as it used to be, especially in booming areas, and Vancouver is booming these days. Here in the Austin area I have gotten used to paying a thousand dollars for all sorts of things that I used to be able to buy or have done for three or four hundred.

For example, I was recently quoted the price of "four or five thousand, depending" to get the old fuel out of the system, change all the fluids, and rebuild the carb on my '77 Bronco, so I can get it rolling again. If I look around, I can get it done cheaper, but I'm probably not going to get it done in the Austin area for less than two grand. It would have been about a grand in 2012 when I stopped driving it.


Edited by CJ2A60 - 26 July 2022 at 12:32pm
Back to Top
Dahdo View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Mar. 2018
Location: Oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dahdo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 3:54pm
"When Walcks has them in stock again, their prices will be probably be higher also."

I called Walcks and KW and Ron Fitzpatrick this morning and all told me the same thing: the brass/copper core radiators that they normally stock are not available and won't be until at least the end of September, more likely the end of the year. And yes, Carl said that prices will be higher than what's currently posted on their website.

This bad new led me to try and find another repair shop that could fix mine for something less than $1,000. I called shops up and down the Willamette Valley from Eugene to Vancouver and found that several shops either closed or no longer offer repairs, only replacement. The only two repair shops I found were the one I visited in Vancouver (Wilsons) and a regional chain, Macs. Mac's is only doing repair work in their Portland shop and they told me over the phone that it's $46 to test the radiator and "repairs can go up to $1,000".  

So here's what I think is going on, at least in our region.  Classic car people are really the only ones left who want to repair their radiators. Re-coring requires skills that not just anybody off the street has, but they can probably bolt in a new aluminum reproduction radiator, and do it much cheaper. The classic car crowd has money to throw at these "passion projects" and Mac's (in our area) knows they pretty much have a monopoly. The last of the small shops, like Wilson's, know what Mac's charges, and adjusts their prices accordingly. And you know what, I don't blame them a bit. Their costs are up, they're just trying to hang in there. So that kind of leaves guys like me (us?) in the lurch--I'm not building a show car, just something to tool around in--the budget is not there for $1,000 radiator repairs. 

So if you are one of the lucky ones who still has a local repair shop fixing theses things at reasonable prices, maybe you can start a side business receiving Willys radiators from Oregon (or wherever), getting them repaired and shipping them back. I'll be your first customer ;)
Back to Top
AKoller View Drop Down
Member
Member

Sponsor Member

Joined: 19 Sep. 2018
Location: Moundridge Kans
Status: Offline
Points: 647
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AKoller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 4:12pm
Since you aren't building a show car just something to tool around in are you completely opposed to a aluminum replacement radiator if you can't get yours fixed for a reasonable price? If you're not opposed to it give Sal over at Vintage Jeeper a look. He is a good guy and his prices are competitive.

https://vintagejeeper.com/products-%26-services/ols/products/1945-1949-willys-aluminum-3-core-radiator
1950 CJ3A "Thumper"
1966 M151 A1
1942 GPW #70221
Back to Top
otto View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb. 2012
Location: Orygun
Status: Offline
Points: 2241
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 12:51pm
Mac’s rebuilt a vintage heater core for me and the bill for that was over $300. Not surprised that a radiator would be considerably more. Maybe try the aluminum version until a better option for the original comes along. 
47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A
64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon
If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle!
Back to Top
Downs View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 Sep. 2021
Location: Hunt County Tex
Status: Offline
Points: 179
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Downs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by Dahdo Dahdo wrote:

"When Walcks has them in stock again, their prices will be probably be higher also."

I called Walcks and KW and Ron Fitzpatrick this morning and all told me the same thing: the brass/copper core radiators that they normally stock are not available and won't be until at least the end of September, more likely the end of the year. And yes, Carl said that prices will be higher than what's currently posted on their website.

This bad new led me to try and find another repair shop that could fix mine for something less than $1,000. I called shops up and down the Willamette Valley from Eugene to Vancouver and found that several shops either closed or no longer offer repairs, only replacement. The only two repair shops I found were the one I visited in Vancouver (Wilsons) and a regional chain, Macs. Mac's is only doing repair work in their Portland shop and they told me over the phone that it's $46 to test the radiator and "repairs can go up to $1,000".  

So here's what I think is going on, at least in our region.  Classic car people are really the only ones left who want to repair their radiators. Re-coring requires skills that not just anybody off the street has, but they can probably bolt in a new aluminum reproduction radiator, and do it much cheaper. The classic car crowd has money to throw at these "passion projects" and Mac's (in our area) knows they pretty much have a monopoly. The last of the small shops, like Wilson's, know what Mac's charges, and adjusts their prices accordingly. And you know what, I don't blame them a bit. Their costs are up, they're just trying to hang in there. So that kind of leaves guys like me (us?) in the lurch--I'm not building a show car, just something to tool around in--the budget is not there for $1,000 radiator repairs. 

So if you are one of the lucky ones who still has a local repair shop fixing theses things at reasonable prices, maybe you can start a side business receiving Willys radiators from Oregon (or wherever), getting them repaired and shipping them back. I'll be your first customer ;)

You see the samenthing with automotive electrical shops.  Try to find a place to repair a starter or alternator for you locally. I don't even have one a reasonable distance from me anymore.  
Back to Top
CJ2A60 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 11 July 2022
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 81
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJ2A60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by Dahdo Dahdo wrote:

So if you are one of the lucky ones who still has a local repair shop fixing theses things at reasonable prices, maybe you can start a side business receiving Willys radiators from Oregon (or wherever), getting them repaired and shipping them back. I'll be your first customer ;)


Such a person would be well-advised, very early on in work on their business plan, to contact the radiator shop that re-cored a radiator for them for $350 last time and find out what they are charging these days.
Back to Top
Dahdo View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Mar. 2018
Location: Oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dahdo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 5:00pm
That looks like a good option. I'll probably go ahead a get one. As you say, it's easy for me or someone else to change out if availability for the more correct ones get better. I seriously doubt it'll ever get cheaper to repair them though. 
Back to Top
Tom in RI View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 07 May 2009
Location: RI
Status: Offline
Points: 1124
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom in RI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 8:27pm
Now I’m curious what just the core costs.  Maine Auto Radiator Mfg. made the last core that I had made for a GPW with the little angle cut and such - years ago
Back to Top
oldscot3 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 22 Oct. 2019
Location: texas
Status: Offline
Points: 545
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldscot3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 8:41pm
The old school radiator shop in my town quit doing automotive type work years ago. He said he couldn't make any money at the price you can buy a new one for. He has all the work he wants doing big truck and equipment radiators, so there you go. I hope my old radiator last awhile longer.
James 4:6 God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
Back to Top
dasvis View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 07 Sep. 2019
Location: Salem, Oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 1518
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2022 at 12:04am
I talked to a retired radiator repair shop customer of mine & he said that the cost of disposing waste water was a big part of rising costs. There is a lot of heavy metals & toxic stuff there. 
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
Back to Top
Jeff J View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Mar. 2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 430
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2022 at 8:46am
Originally posted by dasvis dasvis wrote:

I talked to a retired radiator repair shop customer of mine & he said that the cost of disposing waste water was a big part of rising costs. There is a lot of heavy metals & toxic stuff there. 

A lot of sectors have suffered the same fate. What can move overseas has. The government isn’t helping either. I heard a story a while back about a guy who ran a 5 stall garage. Three of the 5 bays were full of 55 gallon drums of waste oils and solvents. His side of the story is that he had been paying a government licensed and bonded company to dispose of the stuff but the company wasn’t doing what they were paid to be doing. The government closed the disposal company and fined him. His answer was to let the garage fill to the point he cannot work anymore then walk away from it rather than let the government fine him again for another company’s wrongdoing.  “Let the next owner worry about it”.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.