Weird ring and pinion wear pattern?

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   I opened up the Dana 41 I've been running this summer to put new bearings and seals in before I put it on the shelf for some future "original restoration" The wear pattern looks perfect, but rather than a smooth wear area it is a pattern of fine scratches. Nothing that could catch a fingernail, but very visible. I'd post pictures but it seems like I can no longer do that. The "browse" button is gone and the replacement "choose file" button does nothing at all.  A few bits of additional info: 
 I ran this axle for about 8 months after replacing both shafts and hubs, (twisted and split), and installing new outer bearings and seals. It leaked in all directions and made some noise when I got it, but after new outer bearings and seals, and torquing the pinion to 200 ft lb with a new seal, it quieted down nicely and ran fine at 55 mph back and forth to town.
 When I pulled it apart there was no backlash at all between the ring and pinion,( I did not mike this, but I could feel none at all with my hands on the gears and the axles out, never encountered that before), and one of the bearing caps was installed end for end from the stamps on the caps and housing.
This is outside of my experience to date.  Any ideas?

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BD1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 18 Dec. 2019 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 630	Post Options Post Reply Quote BD1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Weird ring and pinion wear pattern? Posted: 01 Mar. 2021 at 10:55pm
	I opened up the Dana 41 I've been running this summer to put new bearings and seals in before I put it on the shelf for some future "original restoration" The wear pattern looks perfect, but rather than a smooth wear area it is a pattern of fine scratches. Nothing that could catch a fingernail, but very visible. I'd post pictures but it seems like I can no longer do that. The "browse" button is gone and the replacement "choose file" button does nothing at all. A few bits of additional info: I ran this axle for about 8 months after replacing both shafts and hubs, (twisted and split), and installing new outer bearings and seals. It leaked in all directions and made some noise when I got it, but after new outer bearings and seals, and torquing the pinion to 200 ft lb with a new seal, it quieted down nicely and ran fine at 55 mph back and forth to town. When I pulled it apart there was no backlash at all between the ring and pinion,( I did not mike this, but I could feel none at all with my hands on the gears and the axles out, never encountered that before), and one of the bearing caps was installed end for end from the stamps on the caps and housing. This is outside of my experience to date. Any ideas?
	BD '47 CJ2a, Shiny on top! '55 CJ5 project

BD1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 18 Dec. 2019 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 630	Post Options Post Reply Quote BD1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Mar. 2021 at 11:14pm
	Another note: This jeep, (and both it's axles) spent most of the last 70 years in Arizona. Do you think sand at some point could cause this? All of the other axles I've been into have been Maine axles to the best of my knowledge. We have to pay money to play in sand here. Also The pinion is marked +3 and it had a .003 shim under the inner bearing cup Edited by BD1 - 01 Mar. 2021 at 11:24pm
	BD '47 CJ2a, Shiny on top! '55 CJ5 project

Oldpappy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4919	Post Options Post Reply Quote Oldpappy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Mar. 2021 at 12:14am
	I am more concerned about no backlash in the gears than scratches provided they are minor, and the the teeth profiles still look good. If it patterns right I would think pinion depth is correct, but ring gear backlash should be .006 -.010. You didn't mention removing the carrier, so it seems odd anything would have changed since the last time anyone was into it, but something isn't right, and may not have been right for a while. It could have been set up too tight before you worked on it and if so you are lucky it hasn't failed yet. I suppose someone could have put a shim on the left side which should have went on the right. You may need to move or adjust shims to get proper backlash.
	If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!

BD1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 18 Dec. 2019 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 630	Post Options Post Reply Quote BD1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Mar. 2021 at 1:21pm

	BD '47 CJ2a, Shiny on top! '55 CJ5 project

uncamoney Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 26 June 2019 Location: greeley co Status: Offline Points: 451	Post Options Post Reply Quote uncamoney Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Mar. 2021 at 1:25pm
	Strange and it seems backwards but the pinion gear needs to be closer to the ring gear. As in moved higher and the gear backlash then needs to be adjusted. Edited by uncamoney - 02 Mar. 2021 at 1:29pm
	john

SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3192	Post Options Post Reply Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Mar. 2021 at 1:58pm
	I can't help but wish you had run a pattern with gear marking compound before you disassembled the ring and pinion and took a few pictures of the pattern on the ring gear. I can't tell much from the picture about the surface of the gears, but it might be the very beginnings of failure. I particularly don't like the looks of the pinion wear. If failure is going to begin somewhere, the pinion is usually the place it begins. Edited by SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A - 02 Mar. 2021 at 1:59pm
	46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub) U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it.

BD1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 18 Dec. 2019 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 630	Post Options Post Reply Quote BD1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Mar. 2021 at 2:42pm
	I suppose at this point I'm looking for advise about whether to continue forward with these gears, putting money into bearings and seals. I'd like to keep this axle as I am pretty certain it is original to my jeep, and it is the best looking housing I've come across. My alternative would be to put it under the bench awaiting the day when I run across a better set of ring and pinion gears.
	BD '47 CJ2a, Shiny on top! '55 CJ5 project

uncamoney Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 26 June 2019 Location: greeley co Status: Offline Points: 451	Post Options Post Reply Quote uncamoney Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Mar. 2021 at 3:18pm
	Not to pat myself on my back but I've set up some industrial stuff. 18" ring gears, 6"pinions. I don't know how many axles that I did that never came back. The pinion gear needs to be set further out in the housing. Cloaser to the axle shaft line. Sort of hard to tell about how much damage you can correct for on things. I hope you have a good bearing puller
	john

SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3192	Post Options Post Reply Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Mar. 2021 at 3:51pm
	In any axle build Always put money into new bearings and seals.
	46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub) U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it.

uncamoney Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 26 June 2019 Location: greeley co Status: Offline Points: 451	Post Options Post Reply Quote uncamoney Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Mar. 2021 at 4:41pm
	Hence the comment about having a good bearing puller. The ones normally around don't fit. The jaws need to be ground down to work on a D44 diff.
	john

BD1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 18 Dec. 2019 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 630	Post Options Post Reply Quote BD1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 11:52am
	I do have bearing pullers, and I have put new bearings and seals in three axles to date. I just have never seen this sort of damage on the face of the ring and pinion before. I pulled the ring gear yesterday and up close it looks worse. Under the magnifier it looks like the scratches are older than I thought and are being worn in. I don’t want to put good money into gears that won’t hold up, and I know that replacement gears for the Dana 41 are very hard to come by. I have another Dana 41 that I rebuilt to run while I was re-doing this one, but in the meantime I lucked into a good Dana 44 that I rebuilt with a Power-Lok and Is in the jeep currently. . I hate to just leave this one go as I have everything I need to put it together, except a good ring and pinion. If this was my only axle I’d run them. Since I can afford the down time I think I’ll wait and see if I can’t come up with some better gears. Edited by BD1 - 04 Mar. 2021 at 1:42pm
	BD '47 CJ2a, Shiny on top! '55 CJ5 project

uncamoney Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 26 June 2019 Location: greeley co Status: Offline Points: 451	Post Options Post Reply Quote uncamoney Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Mar. 2021 at 12:31pm
	As said. Hard to tell from here. The hardeing process only goes so deep so it is hard to tell how bad it is. The puller I used in the Jeep shop had been ground down to fit a D44 case.
	john

BD1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 18 Dec. 2019 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 630	Post Options Post Reply Quote BD1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Mar. 2021 at 1:45pm
	Comparing the depth of the scratches to stacked feeler gauges under a magnifier I'm guessing they are .002 to .004 into the surface of the gears. I think these gears are wasted.
	BD '47 CJ2a, Shiny on top! '55 CJ5 project