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What to do with this T90?

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Greaser007 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2018 at 2:35pm
   I like this thread.

   The little Willys suffer the same demise as many old Tractors sitting outside in the elements year-after-year for how many decades ?
   My father has a Ferguson Tractor TO-20 model, and several years back I asked him if he had ever drained the tranny fluid to look for water. He said NO, it is working so why service it ?   The 3-point lift wouldn't stay up and was not lifting very well either.
   So I pulled the drain plug, and the First-thing to drain out was a gallon or better of water before the hydraulic fluid began running out, and looked very milky. My father is not one to "service" anything on a regular basis.

   These little Willys sit outside for decades, and the rain-water runs down the shifting staff and into the transmission. If the owner has not been doing any deep-water-crossings, why should he drain the transmission fluid. Right !
   Wrong !   Neglect will kill most machinery over time, and many of these little Willys are Neglected for decades. ( I have one in my yard that I tell my guests that the '46 Willys is my "Yard-Art" for visual entertainment ).

   I like the photos of the shifting staff ball and the retainer-pin. My guess is that there are many Loose-Staff-Balls out there.
   I have not yet removed a T-90 shifting staff from the cover, so if you would, please explain what it took to remove the retainer-spring.

   The Willys that I restored way-back in 1985 was also jumping out of 2-nd.
I picked up a new 2-nd gear and syncro's. The back-cut-bevel on the gear teeth get badly-worn and when you let-off the gas, the doggon thing would promptly jump out of second.

   Who is a good supplier of good used parts or New-Old-Stock trans pieces ?

   A few months back, I ordered a T-90 input shaft for my L134 from Debella's upon a lead from one of the other members, and upon opening the package, I realized I forgot to order the input bearing with retainer-ring. oh well.
   
   I just read on the news where Amazon had it Biggest-Monday sales ever. hmm

   I am old-school, and don't purchase from Amazon. and too, the details of stuff on Amazon seems very bleak-to-nil. Amazon is just another middle-man making money from each purchase for the convenience of shopping at home, and quickly. I grew-up where we ordered parts from mail-order Catalogues, which was way-before the Internet Existed.

   thanks for the great photos attached ! They should be most helpful for other member's suffering similar shifting-woes. :)

   Len
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2018 at 4:16pm
If I remember correct the spring turns out like you would a screw. The retaining ring usually comes with the bearing.

   Jim
47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2018 at 4:25pm
The tower spring is held in my three tabs cast into the inside of the tower, look close at the photo I posted earlier.  I had to use 2 or 3 strong flat screwdrivers to get behind the spring in several locations and pry it out from under each of the tabs.  I worked my way around, about two times until it popped free.  There may be a better way, but I could find no guidance.  After the spring was out, the cane pulls out from the bottom.

A bit of good news.  Tuesday evening I picked up a disassembled T90 from a local flat fender guy.  This one came out of a '46 CJ2A.  My initial look at the greasy parts leads me to believe that this one is in much better condition than the "practice" T90 I've been playing with.  Plus it has all the correct parts form my CJ2A.  This will save me a lot on the rebuild and in fact, I may just rebuild this one.  In the next few days I hope to give all the parts a thorough cleaning and inspection.  Then I'll decide my course of action.

 
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2018 at 6:39pm
Fast forward to 31:30 

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov. 2018 at 8:14pm
Yep, thats about what I did. But I struggled a bit more than he did. After I do it few times, I expect it will get easier. Now that I have another T90 on the bench, I'll get a chance to hone my skills LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov. 2018 at 12:48am
Dagnabit!

I cleaned and inspected all the parts from transmission #2. Not too much is useable. The cluster had small ships in several places, the pilot bearing tip surface on the main gear/input shaft has some minor corrosion and a scratch. The synchronizer hub has some buggered splines. The reverse and countershaft are worn, the reverse gear is good, but it's bushing is worn. The output end theads of the mainshaft are buggered from some knucklehead beating on it.  

On the positive side, the case, slider gear, sliding clutch and front bearing retainer are good. 

So out of the 2nd Trans, I can use the slider gear, front bearing retainer and reverse gear. I'll have to order a new mainshaft and cluster gear, reverse shaft and master rebuild kit from Novak.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov. 2018 at 3:00am
and that's why used t90's can be had cheap, and refurbed units notsomuch LOL
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2018 at 11:39am
Originally posted by mbullism mbullism wrote:

and that's why used t90's can be had cheap, and refurbed units notsomuch LOL

You got that rightOuch

After inspecting everything I figured out what is needed. I called Debella and ordered an NOS input gear shaft and a few other things. Then ordered a master rebuild kit from Novak.

So to answer the question originally posed in this thread - I'm going to rebuild it. I guess I knew the answer all along, it just took me 5 months to come to that conclusionLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2018 at 6:48pm
I took apart the long shaft tranny and sorted through the parts from both to see what is useable, this is what I can use. I've ordered a NOS input shaft and reverse gear bushing from Debella and a master rebuild kit from Novak. I got the case all cleaned up and painted this morning. Now it's just a matter of waiting on parts to arrive.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2018 at 10:19pm
Well, it's progress, right?  Some progress is better than no progress.  Thumbs Up
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2018 at 11:17pm
Yes indeed. While waiting, I decided to look at its brother and started scraping off 70+ years of crud. It's too cold to power wash it, but I can scrape and then wire brush it with kerosene to get the majority of crud off the outside before breaking it down.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2018 at 12:22am
After taking apart the shift tower I found the cane's pivot ball has an ugly gouge from being jammed against the pin - grrrrr. Is there any reason I can't just weld it up with a MIG and file it back to shape?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2018 at 3:35am
None whatsoever

DonH

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2018 at 1:58pm
I welded and shaped it this morning. Its not perfect, but much better. With the cane seated in the tower, the alignment pin sits in the middle of the slot, below the welded area. The cane had to have been pushed down, then jammed over to cause the damage. This will work fine now.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2018 at 3:34pm
One of the mainshafts had buggered up threads on the output end. It's seems someone beat on it with a steel hammer. Besides that, the shaft is very nice, so I wanted to see if I could save it. The damaged threads were outward of the cotter pin hole, so I figured they offered little or no additional strength after the nut is torqued and cotter pin is installed.

I chucked it in the lathe and took a few light cuts, just enough to remove the damaged threads. The shaft is hardened steel, not easy to cut. I would cut a little, try the nut and repeat until the nut would go on. I think the shaft will be useable now.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 12:37am
My parts arrived today. NOS input gear/shaft from Debella and a couple little things. T90 master rebuild kit from Novak. Hopefully I can start building it this weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by ndnchf ndnchf wrote:

One of the mainshafts had buggered up threads on the output end. It's seems someone beat on it with a steel hammer. Besides that, the shaft is very nice, so I wanted to see if I could save it. The damaged threads were outward of the cotter pin hole, so I figured they offered little or no additional strength after the nut is torqued and cotter pin is installed.

I chucked it in the lathe and took a few light cuts, just enough to remove the damaged threads. The shaft is hardened steel, not easy to cut. I would cut a little, try the nut and repeat until the nut would go on. I think the shaft will be useable now.










Rescue machine shop work at its best!    My hat is off to you.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.)
U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 4:02pm
Thanks.  I really didn't have anything to lose by trying.  While the steel was quite hard, it wasn't too hard to clean it up with light cuts.  After looking closely at this one and the other shaft, I think I'll use this one.  It is just a little cleaner looking.  The splines are good on both.
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