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What to do with this T90? |
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Gil 
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Joined: 29 July 2016 Location: N.B.Canada. Status: Offline Points: 975 |
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 Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 2:55am |
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Nice job on rebuilding that T90 Steve.
 It’s looking good.Giles
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1946 cj2a 59108
1998 Jeep Cherokee 2 doors 2016 Jeep Cherokee TrailHawk |
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BrianJ
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Joined: 06 Oct. 2014 Location: Hagerstown, MD Status: Offline Points: 564 |
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 2:59am |
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Steve,
I forgot to mention it, but I had an issue with the C springs in the synchro assy that came with my Crown rebuild kit. They were too stiff and a bit larger than the older ones (I may have an old thread on this). I couldn't shift it after it was reassembled. I ended up using the original springs and new dogs (it actually wore a few down trying to force it to shift). I left my 2nd gear alone (Novak suggested I replace it). I figured with new dogs, new detent springs/balls, and some shift tower maintenance that I would take a chance. It's never popped out of second. The gaskets got picked up today and went 2 day priority so you should have them by the weekend. I still used sealant (the right stuff) on the bearing retainer (the original gasket wasn't thick enough and made it dump oil). I figured extra sealant didn't hurt anything.
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Brian Jenkins
1946 CJ2A - SN: 12275 |
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mbullism
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 3:38am |
I had the same issue with the crown springs that came in my novack kit. Could NOT shift it, reused the originals with new dogs and all is well. FWIW, I've since picked up some omix springs and they appear like the originals. Haven't tried them, but noticeably better looking than the crown... go figure. I also have another trans that was reportedly refurbed before I all but had it given to me. Upon cracking it open everything looks new (so I believe the refurb story so far) but all three dogs are broken. I totally expect to find the heavy crown springs in that syncro hub. 0.02
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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ndnchf
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 9:14am |
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Now you guys tell me this
 I noticed that the new dog springs were a little stiffer, but I did use them - ugh. I assumed the old ones were just weak from age. I noticed the clutch hub is a bit harder to move, but I havent tried it with the shift tower. I still need to assemble it. I really don't want to have to tear it back down again. But if it wont shift, I'll have to.......
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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mbullism
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 10:28am |
If you can move it by hand I wouldn't think it would be an issue. I could not move mine by hand with the crown springs, and it was difficult using a lever. It just seemed the shift forks were headed for an early grave the way it was so I reused the original springs. The one I have with the broken dogs was reportedly refurbed and installed in a frame off 2A, which was then sold. Shortly after, the new owner had problems with it jamming, to the point he would have to turn it off and move the TC to N to get it to free up. He replaced the trans with a used unit and moved the jeep down the road. I hadn't gotten around to tearing it down, but now with this spring thing coming up here I may just to prove or disprove my suspicions... ETA: here is a pic of the crown spring on the bottom/left...(90% positive they were crown) with the Omix spring on the top/right. The Omix is much closer to the "originals" that I reused YMMV .  Edited by mbullism - 12 Dec. 2018 at 10:48am |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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ndnchf
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 11:28am |
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Mine is very stiff and very hard to move the clutch sleeve. In the back of my head, I was a little concerned when assembling it. But since I had not seen any mention of this issue before, I assumed it was normal for new parts. Funny thing is I initially installed the old springs because it was easier to do. But then decided to put the new ones in
 . In hindsight, I should have stayed with the old ones. I'll take the mainshaft out and changes them.Yes, the new ones are Crown. Like in your photo, they have square section rather than round wire as the originals are.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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mbullism
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 12:03pm |
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Brian mentions the stiffer springs wearing the dogs... this is what I'm up against in my spare
.  .  . Again, can't be sure if this was caused by stiff springs til I tear it down... if another data point helps I can do that this weekend. It's coming apart eventually anyway
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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ndnchf
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 12:39pm |
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That wear makes sense. When I first tried assembling the dogs, springs, hub and sleeve, I couldn't compress the springs/dogs enough push the hub/sleeve together. Taking it back apart I noticed the dogs were a little scrapped up, so I cleaned them up with a stone. I then put the old springs in and it went together fine. Looking at the Stivers video, his "new" way of assembling them is to put the dogs in place without the springs, assemble the hub/sleeve, THEN install the springs after the hub and sleeve are together. After seeing that, with the hub assembled, I removed the old spring and installed the new ones. That is a much easier way to do it. In hindsight, I should have left the old ones in.
A lot of people say these are easy transmissions to rebuild. They are pretty simple, but there are lot of little tricks and nuances to learn along the way. I've watched the Stivers, Schnitzle and Metal Shaper videos, read Novaks instructions and countless forum posts. I've learned something new and different from each source, and clearly continue to learn. But the learning curve is steep when you've never done one of these.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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mbullism
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 12:44pm |
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Been there, done that
 ... wish I could tell you I only put mine together once
Whats hard to see in the dog pics is that the ends that retain the spring are broken off, all three, so that they can slide forward Edited by mbullism - 12 Dec. 2018 at 12:46pm |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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ndnchf
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 12:59pm |
Broken off - wow, that took a lot of pressure. Try Stivers new way of assembling them, it works really well.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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ndnchf
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 10:03pm |
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I got the clutch hub springs changed this afternoon. It took me the better part of an hour and a half. About 15 minutes to remove the mainshaft, another 10 to disassemble the mainshaft, 5 to change the springs out. Then another hour to put the blasted thing back together. For some reason I had a heck of time getting everything lined up properly. I must have installed and removed the mainshaft 5 or 6 times until I finally got everything right. When I put it together yesterday for the first time, it went together easily - go figure! Grrrrr
So here are the Crown springs I took out. They are made of square section steel, not round wire like the originals. So for the benefit of someone reading this in the future - do not use these. They are way too strong. Now that I put the originals back in, the clutch sleeve slides and snaps into place nicely. Whew!  |
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Mike F
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Joined: 12 Aug. 2018 Location: Longview wa Status: Offline Points: 684 |
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 10:16pm |
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BrianJ
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Joined: 06 Oct. 2014 Location: Hagerstown, MD Status: Offline Points: 564 |
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 11:05pm |
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Hey that's not so bad. Don't put the clutch disc in backwards. You can, then you can reinstall the whole thing and think you are done. Only it won't disengage and the flywheel is completely engaged.
I now marked the disc with a rotary engraver... |
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Brian Jenkins
1946 CJ2A - SN: 12275 |
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Mike F
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Joined: 12 Aug. 2018 Location: Longview wa Status: Offline Points: 684 |
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Posted: 12 Dec. 2018 at 11:27pm |
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That’s how I did it “backwards”. Makes a heck of a racket and don’t work right. But it goes together easily. It was much harder the second time. I continue to do things this way. I guess to gain experience.
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mbullism
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Posted: 13 Dec. 2018 at 12:25am |
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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ndnchf
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Posted: 14 Dec. 2018 at 12:28am |
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Tonight I reassembled the shift tower with new poppet balls and spring. The old shift rail caps were in good shape, so I reinstalled them with a light coat of gasket sealer.
I have no illusions about this transmission being completely leak free. But I made every effort to seal all the potential leak points. I'll use Brian's full face front gasket and it has a sealed front bearing. It's over 70 years old, I don't mind a few drips. So here are a couple glamor shots    |
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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WKWillys
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Joined: 23 Jan. 2018 Location: State College Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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Posted: 14 Dec. 2018 at 2:22am |
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Really nice! Great job.
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'48 CJ2a "Snakeskin"
'50 M38 "Thunder from Heaven" '52 M38a1 "Patina" '47 T3c '48 T3c '52 M100 |
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Mike F
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Joined: 12 Aug. 2018 Location: Longview wa Status: Offline Points: 684 |
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Posted: 14 Dec. 2018 at 2:48am |
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Thanks for sharing this Steve. I’m about to pull mine out to find out what all the noise is about. This thread will undoubtedly help me and many others.
Edited by Mike F - 14 Dec. 2018 at 4:44am |
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BrianJ wrote: