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Won't start, like no fuel but it has fuel

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Oldpappy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct. 2022 at 9:53am
I spent 45 years working with computers, mostly as a software developer and systems analyst.

Has a lot to do with why I like Jeeps and other old things from the days before everything became "computerized". 
If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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MikeG1949 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeG1949 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct. 2022 at 11:49am
Returned the NAPA coil and reinstalled the original coil from the 2008 frame off restoration and spark is still yellow not blue.  Have a new condenser coming tomorrow.  Coil is outputting same voltage 6.5 as it is taking in as did the NAPA coil.  I still have the starting circuit on a separate fully charged battery from the ignition system.  Any new ideas or sources for "correct" ignition parts?
Mike G 1948 S/N 197198
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct. 2022 at 12:34pm
You did set the points to the proper gap, using a feeler gauge, eh? Too wide or too narrow, & it will not work correctly, often giving a yellow spark or no spark at all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48willys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct. 2022 at 1:17pm
Something to watch when installing the points and condenser, make sure the post that comes through the body of the distributor isn’t grounding to the case in any way. Sometimes the bolt has a square head and you need to clock it so it isn’t touching the points plate.
The broken oil pan bolt may be really easy to get out, a left hand drill bit will often screw it right out when the bolt isn’t rusted or cross threaded.
1946 cj2a #28680
1948 chevy 3800 thriftmaster
1946-50's cj2a-3a farm jeep
1993 yj, aka the yj7
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Oldpappy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct. 2022 at 1:18pm
I buy "Blue Streak" points and condensers from Classic Military Vehicles. "Blue Streak" is a Standard Motor Products brand, and right out of the box I can see they are better quality than the sets I have bought from other suppliers.  
If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelyard Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct. 2022 at 8:15pm
I got stranded just the other day. Cruising at 45 MPH on the way back from the gym and she just died with no warning. Thankfully, I was not far from home and a neighbor happened to pass by. He towed back home with a rope. I never enjoy doing that. 

Anyway, the center electrode on the distributor cap disintegrated. 

Maybe something to check if you have not done so already.

Micah
1947 CJ2A 106327, Engine J109205, Tub 97077. Luzon Red

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/steelyard-blues_topic41024_post397981.html?KW=micah+movie#397981

1965 Johnson Furnace Company M416 #6-1577
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJ2A60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct. 2022 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by MikeG1949 MikeG1949 wrote:

I did have one cylinder maybe attempt to fire and I smelled a bit of ozone.


Are you certain you are smelling ozone? Many times what people think is ozone is actually melting insulation or a hot metal smell.

Next time you smell that smell feel the wires going to the coil and the battery cables. See if they are getting warm or hot.

I would investigate this next. If you have an electrical component or wiring overheating, you need to fix that before it causes more problems.

Sometimes, when starters fail because they are being operated at a higher voltage than their rating, they fail in such a way that they will still spin (albeit slower and slower), while they meanwhile have become such a big current hog that the ignition system is starved of power. It still sparks, but the spark is too weak to work well. This is a tough one to isolate; it isn't practical for the non-professional mechanic to measure the amount of current the starter is drawing, and the number is rarely listed in manuals anyway. In addition, the starter housing itself probably won't be hot to the touch. But if the starter is turning slower and slower all the time, it could be the problem. I have seen this multiple times on 12 volt conversions on Ford "N" tractors and Volkswagens.

One final note: in my own personal experience, coils very rarely go bad. I own two right now that are both sixty years old and still work fine. I personally have never fixed a no-start problem by replacing a coil. Although I'm sure they do occasionally fail, it isn't common, and I think most of my fellow old-timers would agree with me.

Now, in your case, it sounds like you might have the wrong type of coil. If so, replace it with the correct one. But the next time you have a no-start condition, I would recommend buying a second coil for troubleshooting purposes. The coil will almost certainly not be the problem. If that's the case, keep the old one as a spare, and rotate it back in so you can troubleshoot by replacement the next time the Jeep won't start. If you have two coils like that, and rotate them in and out every now and then while troubleshooting, you can quickly and easily eliminate the coil as the source of the problem, and they should easily last you the rest of the time you are driving your Jeep.


Edited by CJ2A60 - 07 Oct. 2022 at 1:00pm
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dasvis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct. 2022 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by CJ2A60 CJ2A60 wrote:


One final note: in my own personal experience, coils very rarely go bad. I own two right now that are both sixty years old and still work fine. I personally have never fixed a no-start problem by replacing a coil. Although I'm sure they do occasionally fail, it isn't common, and I think most of my fellow old-timers would agree with me.

 +1, in the 35 years of selling auto parts. I maybe saw two bad coils -- ever.
 Sold a lot of them, but it very rarely solved the problem.
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepdidwhat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct. 2022 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by dasvis dasvis wrote:

Originally posted by CJ2A60 CJ2A60 wrote:


One final note: in my own personal experience, coils very rarely go bad. I own two right now that are both sixty years old and still work fine. I personally have never fixed a no-start problem by replacing a coil. Although I'm sure they do occasionally fail, it isn't common, and I think most of my fellow old-timers would agree with me.

 +1, in the 35 years of selling auto parts. I maybe saw two bad coils -- ever.
 Sold a lot of them, but it very rarely solved the problem.


My CJ2A had distributor ignition advance problems (springs), and also a bad coil.
Getting the distributor rebuilt made most of the problems go away.
However, the coil was also a problem.  The engine ran fine up until about 2200 RPM, then it had random misfire/odd firing.  Drop to 2000 RPM and smooth as glass.  I put my hand on the coil and it was HOT.  Replacing the coil gave me smooth running above 2200 RPM and it ran warm instead of too hot to touch.
It was a TRW 12V coil.  I'm not sure how old it was.

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MikeG1949 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeG1949 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct. 2022 at 11:57am
Got it started.  Thanks for everyone's help.  I replace the plugs using Autolight 295 which were the plugs that the restoration ship installed in 2007.  But I think the problem likely was either the condenser, which I also replace even though it was new, and/or the electrical connections within the distributor.   When I installed the new condenser, I buffed up all the contact places within the distributor.  Also remember I reinstalled the coil the restoration shop installed in 2007 and that did not fix the issue, but it may be worth noting  

A final couple of question for this post.  I had no luck in finding Autolight AN7 plugs as stipulated in the manual.  Is there a better alternative to the Autolight 295?   And finally, on the subject of a coil and it having, or not having an internal resistor.  Google says "the term 'resistor' refers to a device that acts as a two-terminal passive electrical component that is used to limit or regulate the flow of electric current in electrical circuits.  Also, it allows us to introduce a controlled amount of resistance into an electrical circuit." So that says no resistance with a coil that has no resistor or controlled resistance with a coil that has one.  If one should need to source a coil. one helper encouraged us to not believe Kaiser-Willys on this subject, which was appreciated.  but I also found one on EBAY, where the supplier stated "no external resistor" needed, to which I asked them "does that mean it does or does not have one internally.  As of this date have not receive an answer. A BIG THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR HELP.


Edited by MikeG1949 - 09 Oct. 2022 at 8:02am
Mike G 1948 S/N 197198
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